January 18, 2008 4:00 AM PST
Perspective: Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: I don't care who wins!
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Little do they realize, however, that Yogi Berra's famous apercu gets superseded by Cooper's Corollary: it should be over.
Warner Bros.' decision to exclusively support the Blu-ray format may help settle a very muddled matter. When the biggest company in the home-video business chooses sides, that's big news. By my count, that now makes five of the seven major Hollywood studios backing Blu-ray. My hunch is that most retailers will follow suit.
The unanswered question is how long we're going to have to wait until the HD DVD camp gives up.
These things have a way of dragging out longer than they should. So it was that Toshiba, the chief technical brains behind the HD DVD standard, doesn't give any sign that it's willing to pack it in. Akio Ozaka, who runs Toshiba's American consumer products business, isn't ready to run up a white flag.
If you believe Ozaka, his team will still come out on top. I was reminded of a hysterically funny scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where the Black Knight gets chopped to pieces by King Arthur but refuses to give up. "It's just a flesh wound," the Black Knight says.
Maybe this is just a flesh wound. Or maybe it's something more.
I understand why Ozaka is performing the stiff-upper-lip routine. Competing camps in any standards battle have a lot riding on the outcome. And so it is in this case, where the victors will help themselves to a big pot of gold brimming with billions of dollars in revenues.
But let's get real. Outside of the protagonists and their immediate families, do you really care who comes out on top? And is there any good reason you should?
For the rest of us, it's just inside baseball, and frankly, I'm bored silly after two years of listening to claims and counterclaims. When it comes to making their case, both sides are guilty of hideous hyperbole.
Is Blu-ray better than HD DVD or vice versa? I don't know, but I'm not swayed by the opinions of experts either camp trots out to convince me. Anyway, you can buy supposedly impartial opinions 20 cents on the dollar and pawn them off as "authoritative" and "unbiased." Everybody's for sale, so buyer beware.
Just make things easy so I don't get hosed. Too many times consumer electronics companies go stone deaf after leaving their customers in the lurch. If you want my loyalty, make sure my stuff runs on a platform that won't get dumped a couple of years later. I hold grudges about that sort of thing.
Until now, I've held off upgrading to a new player because of the uncertainty over this standards nonsense. I remember VHS versus Betamax and that episode taught a valuable lesson. Nobody in their right mind wants to get stuck with a loser, so it's prudent to wait on the sidelines until things get sorted out.
When I covered sports for a living, a veteran pulled me aside on my first day and said, "There's no cheering in the press box. You cheer for the best story."
Pulling on my user hat, I'm now ready to cheer. Not because I have a vested interest in HD DVD or Blu-ray. I just want clarity. Folks, it's time to move on.
Biography
Charles Cooper is CNET News.com's executive editor of commentary.
See more CNET content tagged:
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Just because if you want to move on, and I agree those discussion have been there for too long, you need to keep yourself updated on the possible winner, Now the situation is clearer with BR appearing to be the format of the next 10 years.
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He doesn't care which wins because if one format does win, he won't have to worry about his stuff (from that format) not running or getting dumped a couple years later.
Need I go on?
I do agree that it is time to more on. We have more important things to consider like should we look seriously at the up coming tabletop box from Netflix.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go watch 300 on Blu-ray... again.
cable providers will prevent either format from becoming as
successful as today's DVD players.
If Apple's new movie rental service is half as good as they claim,
I'll be dropping my Netflix subscription. And if it fails it won't
be long until someone else gets it right.
Disks are dead.
I don't like pay per view because it only has the movies the cable company wants me to watch. Yes, I can get blades of glory, but can I get 2010 or Contact? I want to watch the movie I want to watch, not the random shows on TV.
Download costs way too much even if you are pirating stuff. Hard drives are not cheep, and it takes very few 30GB movies to max out a 500GB drive.
Optical media is cheep, does not take up allot of space, and you can keep it forever. Someday soon, you will be able to go to Walmart and have any movie you want burned to Blue-ray while you wait, with all the cover art and graphics on the disk. No more "Out of stock".
I don't know who will win (I am afraid it will be Sony), but I found it dissappointing that CNET was shilling for BR.
Go to your favorite outlet. Get the salesman to put in an HD and a Blu-ray on the same screen. Check the settings and compare. Then choose.
IMO, Blu-ray is winning but you shouldn't take my word for it. More than that, remember there is a very well-heeled branding industry that is paid to do nothing day in and day out but convince you to be afraid of your own selections and to select what they are paid to convince you to select. These are of the same ilk as the last round of Beltway politicos using fear to push your buttons.
Trust your own judgement. It's just stuff. If you choose wrong, you can sell it on e-Bay. If you choose well, celebrate yourself and rent another disc.
The problem is not formats. The problem is not online vs retail. The problem is not having enough high quality content so finding yourself watching Casablanca again, realizing that B&W from 60 years ago still looks better cinematically and has a better storyline.
Too much tech. Not enough heart. Be the walrus and wait for a tastier penguin.
seems closer to HD cable than it does to blu-ray. I install home
theater systems for best buy and we hook these things up all the
time. We probably outsell blu-ray to HD 5:1 (at least at our store) a
I am consistently disappointed with how HD looks. I want my TV to
look s good as possible, so yes...I care.
Since then Blu-Ray has advanced way beyond HD DVD. That's in part to the fact that Blu-Ray spec can hold 10GB more per layer and deliver 20% more bits per second worth of video and 100% more for audio. It also may be related to favoring the open MP4/AAC format in production software, while HD DVD tends to push the Microsoft-backed VC-1. Although both players support both formats, the ecosystem surrounding MP4/AAC is much more robust since it's so open.
Anyway, yeah. The latest Blu-Ray discs are pretty amazing, eh?
I originally believed that HD-DVD would win the war because those disks cost less to produce. Warner's decision was made on a different economic factor and that was the possibility of a recession making the format decision more difficult for consumers.
I'm sure downloading and VOD would be popular if the pipes were really already there. But many of us know how long it takes a cable company to even upgrade its systems to just carry HD programs. So I don't see this as a big factor anytime soon. I've also had an AVeL Linkplayer2 for 3 years and even tried downloadable DivX rentals but the firm renting them was too disorganized to indicate clearly on their web site whether the movie was playable on a the Linkplayer or just a computer.
As for rentals the studios want people to buy the HD media and not rent so they are limiting what they will sell to the rental companies.
region protection - already enforced by Blu
Data stream - Blu has the upper hand, but makes no discernable difference
Interactive content (internet etc) - HD have been offering from day 1 what Blu will hopefully offer by the end of this year
Capacity - against the odds HD now has the lead with the ratified 3 layer disk. Does it really matter - for movie sales no - as stupid as it sounds, people still percieve a 2 disk movie to be better value than a 1 disk.
I think that was everything
The picture was spotty (not just grainy) and poor. Only the movie mind you, not the whole disc. It looked a lot like VHS only much sharper.
I salvaged the sale by popping in the Bourne Identity (both movies are included with the players). The picture was now as expected. Bold, sharp and CLEAN!
So... has anyone else noticed this on the 300 disc? We have our own sampler discs and this is the first time I've seen 300 on HD-DVD.
Even BD fans have to acknowledge that the competition with HD DVD has *forced* the BD gang to be a tad less consumer-hostile on DRM and features, switch to VC1 encoding for better picture quality, lower hardware prices faster than they wanted to, and sell the movies cheaper than they intended. Of those FOUR, movie prices are the most easily "adjusted" and I fully expect BD movie prices to rise significantly *if* HD DVD is truly vanquished.
The reason I say *if* if that we're talking Sony here. We should not underestimate their capacity to do stupidly greedy things at the wrong time. (Already Samsung and LG are having second thoughts at the constant spec changes and how strongly Sony hardware *cough*PS3**cough* dominates the limited BD market. BD is looking like a win for Sony but a loss for all their hardware partners right now.)
BD seems t have the upper hand now but the longer HD DVD lingers, the better off we consumers will be, long term...
Personally, I'd prefer a stalemate that runs a couple more years so the $20 street price gets entrenched and the studios don't dare raise movie prices on us when the war is finally settled.
2. VC-1 is not any better picture quality than MP4/AAC. They're both better than MPEG2, which is what some of the first Blu-Ray discs were encoded in, if that's what you're referring to. Both formats support all three standards.
3. The players are being priced according to supply and demand, as well as perceived value. Right now HD DVD players are cheaper because they're worth less. Eventually Toshiba will have a fire sale for remaining inventory and sell them for peanuts-- it doesn't mean you want one.
4. The longer HD DVD lingers, the less market penetration either format will have, the less volume will be produced, and therefore the HIGHER prices will be.
5. Again, studios set their movie's pricing, not the folks who make the disc format standards.
1) While using an upconverting standard DVD player works, with upconverting you can still see a very distinct "softness" in background details, especially with movies such as the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy and Disney/Pixar movies. Also, Blu-ray discs will offer Dolby TrueHD and/or DTS "Master Audio" lossless audio with extremely high sound quality, something you can't do with DVD's.
2) Downloading movies is not as good as a substitute as some people think. Videos in HD format--even 720p resolution--are -huge- in size for a two hour movie, which could take several hours to download, tying up your broadband connection. With many ISP's now imposing download limits per month, that makes the downloading idea even less viable.
attempt by Microsoft and Toshiba to hijack the whole deal.
Blu-Ray was pretty much all set to go, then these guys show up
and wanted to dump a ton of stuff into it that favored them at
the expense of everyone else (think patents and DRM types
here)... little wonder they were thrown out. They decided to have
a go with HD-DVD, and obviously they lost.
Besides, the end-user isn't the target audience anyway - the
target audience consists of the movie studios, hardware
manufacturers, and anyone else who will end up shelling out
massive amounts of money to license either technology. We're
just the bait here.
/P
If anything, Blu-ray has more DRM, and offers less choice to customers.
The 'hijack' was by Sony.
As far as the 'war' being over, I wouldn't count on it. HD-DVD is at a much nicer price point, and if enough people buy HD-DVD players, you will see all the studios back-pedal and start releasing all their stuff in HD-DVD format.
Who decided that we could only have one format for HD movies? I happen to prefer some of the features of HD DVD (no region coding & hybrid discs) but frankly don't care if Blu-ray lasts forever. The one thing that I care about is the ability to purchase the movies that I want on HD DVD.
Period.
Your statement "If you want my loyalty, make sure my stuff runs on a platform that won't get dumped a couple of years later" runs contrary to saying that it's "time to move on."
As for Sirius and XM...uhh...they are likely going to merge due to poor sales on both fronts thanks to their competition. Where have you been?
Having 2 formats hurts the consumer in the end. Then we're stuck with hybrid players or two players, the inability to always use one thing in all places. Having standards makes more sense. It's not about loyalty, it's about simplicity. You don't need 2 sets of racks holding 2 sets of anything.
Just do the math for yourself. Take a single example of a movie that is certain to make its way to HD: The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Extended Edition.
For HD DVD this movie will be limited to an absolute maximum of 16 Mbps average bit rate for *both* video and sound. At this bit rate either video or sound (or both) will suffer. It is just fact. It is just reality.
For Blu-ray this movie will be limited to an absolute maximum of 26.67 Mbps average bit rate for *both* video and sound. While this may not be optimal it may allow very good quality for *both* video and sound.
As a writer for a technology site you should be able to point to explicit examples like this to show the strengths of one format over the other -- and based upon things of this nature you SHOULD care!
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/01/18/time-warner-links-web-prices-with-usage
ISP's aren't liking it when "unlimited" internet is actually used.
Intellectual Property has gotten out of hand!!!!
Its like the book publishers that went after amazon a while back because they were selling used books and the publishers weren't getting more money. Everyone wants to double and triple dip.
What if I buy a DVD movie and a month later the studio decides that movies "value" is higher than what I paid?
I want control! I want to be able to take it to any TV and watch it. I want to be able to take it to a friends house and watch it. I also want decent resolution (yes, I'd like to see movies in 1080p-I realize that will take me a while until Directv gets more HD & my tv gets replaced etc)
That way, if your PC or Home Network goes down you can have the "privilege" to pay to get all your stuff again. ...and places like Disney wants to do it's "we're bringing X out of the vaults for a limited time!" promotion and sends you the movie, it stops being playable whenever they decide to "shut the vault" again.
Like all that free content or user-created content that people made with Real Networks in the 90s that are so much wasted space on a backup CD.
That Superbowl game, Prize fight, etc. that you recorded for free on VHS? Still there. The same event downloaded onto you hard drive for $$$? Nope, sorry the company that provided the DRM license doesn't exist any more or changed schemes so you are SOL. ...But you can rent/re-purchase it from your cable-co's classic sports PPV.
Then I'm thinking you should care about this format war, especially since Blu-Ray is going to do exactly that when they release the new spec for 2.0. Their answer to this? "They [consumers] knew what they were getting themselves into" and "we suggest a firmware-upgradeable platform, such as PS3." I don't know about you, but the LAST thing I want is a format that forces me to purchase a game console just to ensure that the new revisions of said format don't render my player obsolete; it's freaken ridiculous and that, if anything, is what really irks me.
Lest I be labeled a backer of one of the camps from the above; had the HD-DVD camp done AND said this, I would be equally pissed-off at them (I mean at least give an apology or the truth without pointing fingers and insulting the consumer's intelligence (*cough* Sony)). I want to be clear: up until the folks on the Blu-Ray camp pulled this crap, I really didn't care - I was one of the ones on the sidelines waiting for the dust to settle; however, now that the Blu-Ray camp has shown it's true colors [attitude] towards the consumer, you better believe I most-definitely care.
Sony's ambitions for the PS3 have been no secret since it was first announced. They want it to do and be everything for us, including the kitchen sink. With PS3 losing developers left and right however, I'm putting my wager that Sony is hoping Blu-Ray will be the "killer app" to help consumers make the jump from dedicated game console to home entertainment console.
That said, if Blu-Ray became the defacto-standard in HD what motivation would any company within the consortium have to make firmware-upgradeable dedicated hardware players? Sony certainly doesn't have a motivation to push this, given it's hopes for the PS3 and the other backers of Blu-Ray wouldn't either, because after all, when Blu-Ray HYPERHDMAXSUPERDELUXE is released, consumers will have to purchase new players instead of simply upgrading their firmware (more $$$ and since Blu-Ray is it: who's gonna argue with them). Their reply to the uproar? Technology progresses and you simply can't expect consumers to use the same player forever.
Yes folks, I don't really care about technology or who has the superior format at this point. I care about the same thing the companies backing both formats care about: the bottom line ? only, we appear to be at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to the bottom line. Companies are all in business to make profit; however, the ones that worry me are those companies who would seek to profit off the consumer at the detriment of the consumer. That's just something I can't support.
I have an AppleTV but I don't even rent physical media. Why spend $5 on a rental when the disc is only $20? I'm not going to invest money in something I don't own, thanks.
Which is to say nothing of the fact that downloadable rentals sitting at 1080p are blocky and compressed to hell. Its an inferior product and after 10 years of listening to MP3s, I'm tired of over-compressed sound and picture. I have a TV that's capable of a breathtaking picture, and I'm supposed to take a lesser picture in the interest of novelty distribution? No thank you, I'm ready for quality.
People deserve the best. Apple TV or no, discs are here for quite awhile...at least the next decade. Oh, and Apple supports Blu-ray.
The picture quality is good in both DVD formats, I just hate overpaying $400 for BluRay when HD-DVD can drop to $99,,,
half the price of a "combo" player. I'm enjoying them both almost
daily. By the time a winner is declared my machines will be ready
for replacement anyway. The only caveat is I rent my discs I don't
purchase them. (I can always purchase my favorite discs later when
a format winner emerges). Regards, David
- MP4, DivX, H.264
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by frankz00
January 18, 2008 8:51 AM PST
- Why do we even need to think about discs any more? They're archaic! Network distribution, hard drives, and flash storage are the real future!
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