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September 22, 2008 4:00 AM PDT

Searching the city for Zune-friendly Wi-Fi

Posted by Ina Fried
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SAN FRANCISCO--One of the nice things about Microsoft's new Zune is that it can download or stream songs at a hot spot. The downside: the music player won't work at just any hot spot.

The big limit is that the Wi-Fi locale not only has to be free, but also of the variety that doesn't pop up a browser window before letting users online. That's because unlike the iPod Touch, the Zune has no browser.

To get a sense of just how big a limitation that was, I decided Wednesday to put on my sneakers and head all over town to see where I could and couldn't get new tunes. I was sure I would have better luck than when I went across town two years ago in search of another Zune.

Click here to see all of the Wi-Fi places CNET checked out.

Click on the picture above to see a larger map of all the Wi-Fi places CNET News checked out.

(Credit: Susan Dove/CNET News)

I loaded up the Zune with a few albums and videos the night before. I also selected a few "channels"--essentially playlists programmed by others that get updated on a regular basis. Among the channels I included were Billboard's top Latin hits, as well as one programmed by KROQ--the LA-area radio station I listened to throughout high school.

Apparently, though, I hadn't synced the channels to the Zune, so I had to wait 45 minutes while it downloaded the 112 tracks over my home Wi-Fi connection.

I wrote a blog as the last of the KROQ channel made its way to my Zune. At 9:45 a.m., as the Violent Femmes' "Blister in the Sun" played in my headphones, I walked out the door, and headed to my first stop--the independent Nervous Dog Coffee, one of my personal favorites. The Zune didn't immediately find any Wi-Fi.

Assured by the staff that indeed, there was free and unprotected Wi-Fi, I gave the Zune a reboot. I guessed correctly that you needed to hold down the left-most button while pressing down on its touchpad. Sure enough, that did the trick and I sat down with my chai and started reading that day's copy of The Wall Street Journal.

With nothing but depressing headlines about the financial meltdown, I decided I simply had to listen to R.E.M.'s "It's the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine)." So I downloaded that using the Zune Pass subscription graciously loaned by Microsoft, along with the player. (The 16GB player will set you back $199, while the Zune Pass costs $14.95 a month.)

With my new party trick working, I walked back up to the counter to show Joe Belen, the coffee shop's ever-jovial owner. I asked him to pick an artist and he opted for Tears for Fears. As I struggled to enter the name using the Zune's scrolling mechanism (it has no keyboard or touch screen) he quipped, "Is that too long? Should I pick Cher?"

I stopped entering keys after "tears for" and Zune offered me a choice of Tears for Fears and Tears for Beers. Within a few seconds Belen was listening to the band's album Mad World streaming over his cafe's Wi-Fi. "That's awesome," Belen said.

Click for gallery

As I finished my drink and started to get ready to leave, I noticed a poster for Joan Baez's new album Day after Tomorrow. I started streaming a track and then absent-mindedly headed out the door. Because I was streaming the track, it stopped playing a few feet outside the coffee shop as I left Wi-Fi range.

I hopped on the 14 Mission bus, as I played a song from a CD in my collection ("Etz Chaim" by Blue Fringe). I checked for nearby Zunes on the bus, but I knew that was a long shot.

At 24th and Mission streets, I switched to the BART subway, but not before ducking into McDonald's--a spot I knew had Zune-friendly Wi-Fi. It took a minute to find the Wayport network, but the Zune connected on the first try and I started downloading Eddie Murphy's greatest comedy hits--another throwback to high school.

Eddie was going to take awhile so I popped the Journal back open and read an interesting article on Nathan Myhrvold and his Intellectual Ventures, as Blue Fringe continued to play in the background and Eddie headed toward my Zune. Fifteen minutes later, the tracks were all downloaded, and I headed downtown.

As Eddie Murphy did his James Brown impression, I walked into San Francisco's main library. The Zune easily found the unsecured "Sfpl-wireless" network, but was unable to connect. I decided to move on. I passed through a farmer's market and by the steps of City Hall without finding another Wi-Fi network.

Eddie was starting to bore me, so I switched to the Billboard Latin channel. Cuisillos de Arturo Macias' "Vive y Dejame Vivir" began playing. As I walked down Market Street, I realized I was starting to get hungry. I decided to head toward Westfield's San Francisco Shopping Centre, a recently remodeled mall that I knew had free Wi-Fi. As I entered, I searched for a signal. I was briefly hopeful after seeing the message "Connecting...Westfield."

That, however, was followed by the same error message I'd gotten at the public library. I decided to stick with the Latin channel already playing and headed downstairs to eat.

Taking a Zune into Apple territory
Two Diet Cokes and a Rubio's Wrapsalada later, I headed back on the Wi-Fi trail.

I had to try connecting at the Apple Store. I just had to. And besides, it was only a block away and I wanted to see the new iPods.

I walked in and stood next to the new Nanos, trying to attract as little attention as possible as I pulled out the Zune. It took a couple of tries, but it connected.

I didn't download anything. Just standing next to the new iPod Nanos and joining Apple's network felt rebellious enough. Even with my Zune successfully connected, though, I couldn't help but look wistfully at the iPod Touches. (I lost my personal one in January.)

From the Apple Store, I headed farther downtown and decided to try for a connection at the Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, though I knew it was a no-go. Coffee Bean--another Southern California export--is my favorite of the chain coffee spots and does have free Wi-Fi, but you typically have to enter a code and click yes to its terms and conditions via a browser before the bits start flowing.

At this point, my battery was running low, so I decided to duck into the office and file a quick blog. I could charge the Zune in the office, but had no luck connecting it to Wi-Fi. CNET has a public Wi-Fi network, but it also has a browser interrupt requiring users to agree to its rules.

After recharging my batteries, and the Zune's, I headed out to Union Square. The foggy morning had given way to a perfectly sunny afternoon and I was looking forward to spending the rest of the day basking in the sun and palm trees, watching the tourists, and streaming some music.

Unfortunately, when I got to Union Square, I was unable to get on to the free Wi-Fi that permeates the outdoor area in the San Francisco shopping district. After triple-checking that I couldn't get on, I headed to the Fillmore district, an area known for both its jazz music and its abundant coffee shops.

I struck out at three places--another Coffee Bean, Peet's, and The Grove, a popular hangout for laptops and their caffeine-addicted owners. I did finally find one Zune-friendly spot. The Royal Ground Coffee on Fillmore had Wi-Fi that was free and open.

Somewhat exhausted, I clicked "music," and then "shuffle all," and decided my quest had come to an end.

During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 42 comments
by Goodbye Helicopter September 22, 2008 4:49 AM PDT
Careful, you at one point call the Zune a Nano whilst charging it in your office.
Reply to this comment
by timber2005 September 22, 2008 5:12 AM PDT
At this point, my battery was running low, so I decided to duck into the office and file a quick blog. I could charge the ***Nano*** in the office, but had no luck connecting it to Wi-Fi. CNET has a public Wi-Fi network, but it also has a browser interrupt requiring users to agree to its rules.

***Zune?
Reply to this comment
by Ina Fried September 22, 2008 7:53 AM PDT
Yep. Thanks for Zune/Nano catch... It's fixed now.

-Ina
by artistjoh September 22, 2008 5:50 AM PDT
Your mistake in calling the Zune a Nano is symptomatic of the problem MicroSoft faces - for the majority of people thinking of MP3 brings to mind iPod whether we realize it or not because for the majority of people iPods are the only truly desirable MP3 players available.

This article would be much more instructive if you had then taken an iPod Touch out for a walk along the same route and reported on your WiFi experiences including finding and purchasing music along the way. I suspect the experience would clearly reveal why the iPod Touch remains desirable while the Zune collects dust on store shelves. While the Zune approach to finding and "purchasing" music sounds good on paper, it needs comparison with the iTunes/iPod Touch model on the ground for its real world advantages and disadvantages to become apparent.
Reply to this comment
by kbellve September 22, 2008 6:29 AM PDT
Wow, did Microsoft put you up to this? How many Zune owners do you think there are?

If you still want to appeal to the few, may I suggest your next article is writing about the Atari ST.
Reply to this comment
by blsith September 22, 2008 7:05 AM PDT
Dude, read much? "So I downloaded that using the Zune Pass subscription graciously loaned by Microsoft, along with the player."

He got the player as a promo to try out the service and blog about it. So he tried out the player and the service and bloged about it. He didn't just find the spots that worked well, he actually did some real work on it, to figure out how well the concept worked in the Bay area.

Geesh.
by rapier1 September 22, 2008 8:00 AM PDT
How many Zune owners are there? Around 2 million. Not a huge number of people in comparison to the iPod but not an insignificant number either.
by kbellve September 22, 2008 10:45 AM PDT
Of course I didn't read the article. The title of the "press release" told me everything I needed to know and I was wrong how?

I am just surprised that this is front page "news" on cnet...
by Vegaman_Dan September 22, 2008 12:28 PM PDT
kbellve wrote:

"Of course I didn't read the article."

Then why do you expect people to read your comments?
by make_or_break September 23, 2008 1:21 AM PDT
He? To the one who made that gender misstep...try again.

To kbellve: why not see if there's anything to the Zune's Wi-Fi capabilities? If it doesn't appeal to you, why did you even bother to care to comment? Hell, Ferraris probably make up less than one ten thousandth of a percent of all new car sales each year, yet every frickin' auto mag will drop everything just to blather all over one. To that 3% of all MP3 player users that went Zune, this article is probably godsend. Besides, everyone and their mother writes about and reports on iPods, including CNET. Just because your hatred for MSFT has your undies in a bunch doesn't mean that this isn't interesting--however morbid--to others.
by cvaldes1831 September 22, 2008 7:19 AM PDT
The fact that the iPod touch has a browser which lets you connect to open WAPs hiding behind a service agreement isn't a major advantage. Location-based services (from WAP triangulation) and the accelerometer are (and with those, a fun app like UrbanSpoon, which recommends a nearby restaurant with a shake).

The iTunes Store isn't the only avenue to get music. You like KROQ? I listen to KROQ with the AOL Radio app. Likewise, you can use Pandora, FlyCast (for Shoutcast streams), and Simplify Media (the latter streams from your computer's iTunes library).

A more interesting article would have been to take both the Zune and the iPod touch on the same roadtrip and compare overall usability plus wireless performance.

Oh, and The Grove has a paid network. It's not free.
Reply to this comment
by rodtrent September 22, 2008 7:48 AM PDT
The Zune's horrid battery life is its downfall. Turning on Wifi kills the battery: http://myitforum.com/cs2/blogs/rtrent/archive/2008/09/20/battery-life-and-wifi-the-*****-in-the-zune-3-0-armor.aspx
Reply to this comment
by AppleRocks1963 September 22, 2008 8:02 AM PDT
Must be hard to find the other 3 people in the world that own a Zune.
Reply to this comment
by timber2005 September 22, 2008 11:34 AM PDT
ssseeerrrrriiiiiooooouuuuussssaaaalllllllllyyyyy time for a new joke there.
by terminalblue September 22, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
i have two zunes. do i count twice?
by jk3yboi September 22, 2008 9:06 PM PDT
Looks like I'm the third :D
and AppleRocks, its obvious your an apple fanboy. go play on one of your pages, why don't you?
by Stryfe01 September 22, 2008 8:24 AM PDT
I I like the new firmware update, bu i'm having trouble with receiving radio stations. Much less being able to tag a song to download.
Reply to this comment
by Super2online September 22, 2008 8:34 AM PDT
Let's try to keep some perspective here. The IPod Touch is the only IPod that offers a browser to log in and accept user agreements. The other 3 (Classic, Nano, and Shuffle) do not. However, every Zune model offers WiFi providing a more consistent experience across the entire line for it's users.

Microsoft has sold over 2 million Zunes to date so I expect that many of the sharing features will become a more usable feature as time goes by.. As far as usability goes, the Zune has always gotten high marks and every article I have read on the new firmware and Zune 3.0 software upgrade states that Zune has surpassed IPod in interface design and the the New Mix view blows the IPod Genius feature away. It has always had an FM tuner built in and now sports a download feature for any song you hear on any radio station.

To be fair, Apple still has the lead in colors, variety of models, and in the IPod Touch models case, features and usability. But look at the price and hardware comparison for each companies top models:

IPod Touch
8GB $229
16GB $299
32GB $399

Zune
80GB $229
120GB $249

Look how much more memory space you get at the price points. Microsoft has come a long way in 3 releases and many people are very pleasantly surprised by the amazing array of well thought out features when they actually do a IPod and Zune comparison.
Reply to this comment
by mandelbomb September 22, 2008 8:58 AM PDT
I think you left out the IPOD CLASSIC 120GB for $249. Exact same price as the ZUNE 120GB but a much better MP3 player. Apple dropped the 80GB option.
by skrubol September 22, 2008 12:35 PM PDT
mandelbomb:
How's the wifi on your Ipod classic working for you?
Oh, that's right, it doesn't have wifi, and therefore really isn't worth a mention in this comparison.
I'd much prefer a Zune to a Classic at this point. Itunes is the biggest detractor from iPod's IMO. Maybe it works great on Mac's, but it's caused me nothing but trouble, when all I want to do is just get my music onto the device.
by cwkoller September 22, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
How's the browser working on that Zune? Oh, the Zune doesn't have a browser ... the OP started this skewed comparison where cheaper HD storage is compared to the better, more expensive Flash drive storage. C'mon...
by jk3yboi September 22, 2008 9:11 PM PDT
I have to agree with Skrubol. I got nothing but trouble from iTunes. @cwkoller: your right. It doesn't. Yet... In only 3 generations of players its actually competitive to iPod, even to the point of Apple releasing a bigger nano (I think thats the one) just because Microsoft's version was bigger. Give it more time and we'll see what happens.
by ~Canuck~ September 22, 2008 9:14 PM PDT
Wow, you get so much more space than the iPod Touch. Ever heard of the iPod Classic? 120GB for $249. Great job on the apples-oranges (excuse the pun) comparison there.

Anyway, give me an iPod over a Zune any day of the week. The Classic has the same capacity, only with better battery life and a more compelling interface, for me at least. The nano has a bigger, better display, better battery life, more colors, an equalizer, and the shake-to-shuffle feature, a nice little gimmicky feature. There is no Zune equivalent to the Shuffle or Touch, so I'll just leave those by themselves. Every iPod has Genius, which is nice.
by davidsmi September 22, 2008 10:19 AM PDT
Why not try the trip again with a smart phone. After turning off WiFi on my iPhone to save battery I realized what a hastle looking for WiFi is. WiFi really isn't that reliable except coffee shops, home and airports.
Reply to this comment
by rford191 September 22, 2008 10:34 AM PDT
Interesting article. Your experiences are similar to mine (I'm in central WI): there are a few places, but not too many. Where I work, there's an open hotspot that I can connect to, and it works great; I don't use it much because I have hours worth of preloaded music anyway, but it's nice to know that I could if I wanted to.
Please ignore the anti-Zune people!
Reply to this comment
by ddotmark September 22, 2008 10:52 AM PDT
You should come to New York City and take a ride on any subway line. You'll see everyone has a Nano, iPod or iPhone, but try to find a Zune...are you kidding. One day I did see someone with a Zune and they were holding it in a way that looked like they were trying to hide it from anyone else to see...like they were embarrassed they didn't have an iPod. Zune...what a joke.
Reply to this comment
by BenHD September 22, 2008 2:01 PM PDT
You make a great point... the best thing about the iPod is that everybody has one.
by jk3yboi September 22, 2008 9:17 PM PDT
It's called choice. I like being able to choose. Don't you? I have had a Zune for 2 years now, but I think I'm getting an iPhone. I would say the Zune is a great alternative to the iPod, and at least its not totally generic.
by troyrig September 22, 2008 9:44 PM PDT
Something about your comment reminds me of the Borg. I guess some people are content to be drones, living with a collective mind. No thanks.
by bajanx September 23, 2008 2:31 AM PDT
"the best thing about the iPod is that everybody has one" I don't get it. At least with the zune, as few as there are, there are more and more benefits as more people buy them. Sharing music and more people to get more music from through the software. Whats the benefits to more people having the ipod? Accessories? Apple fanboys go on wid that yo!
by Super2online September 22, 2008 1:53 PM PDT
I always have to laugh at these IPod users. No substance in their posts, lots of condemnation without any factual information to back it up, and nothing but praise for a product that is very good (no one is saying it isn't), but certainly not perfect (the perfect product doesn't exist) but not the only good product on the market.

Can't you guys come to grips with the idea that some of us aren't going to follow the crowd blindly. That maybe there are good reasons to look at the competition. That maybe the IPod doesn't stack up as well as it use to. That maybe life has taught us some good leasons like being different is a good thing, that blindly following others could possibly make you happy, or provide lots of reasons for regfet.

Sort of like all the anger that has been displayed over the recent bondoggles that Apple has unleased on unsuspecting consumers recently. Try now to imagine yourself in a world where you apply yourself more and rise up to a higher calling.
Reply to this comment
by Calvatheson September 22, 2008 1:56 PM PDT
Super2online, let's make a valid, oranges-to-oranges comparison, shall we?

iPod classic
120GB $249

Zune
80GB $230
120GB $250


iPod Nano
8GB $149
16GB $199

Zune
4GB $130
8GB $150
16GB $200

iPod Shuffle
1GB $49
2GB $69

Zune
-no comparable product


IPod Touch
8GB $229
16GB $299
32GB $399

Zune
-no comparable product

You say, "Look how much more memory space you get at the price points." I'm looking. Your whole post looks like pre-paid astroturfing. If you're not being paid, you should be.
Reply to this comment
by ClarkWells September 22, 2008 3:28 PM PDT
Calvatheson - You are a moron. You didn't read what his main point was: ALL ZUNES COME WITH WIFI.... iPod touch is the only ipod that has wifi, and it is very expensive compared to the Zune. His comparison was dead on.

P.S. All you people who just talk **** about the zune because you are uneducated about it, Enjoy paying $.99 for every song you download, while i stream and download unlimited for $15....
by Super2online September 22, 2008 7:13 PM PDT
Calvatheson,

If you take the time to read sentence two in Ina's article, you will note that her article is making a comparison with an IPod Touch because it has a browser which enables logging in and accepting user agreements. She goes on by saying she has decided to see how big Zune's WiFi limitation is compared to the IPod Touch.

Since that is the criteria she uses that's the criteria I used. However, I acknowledged the fact that Apple still has the lead in colors and models. Yet these models do not have WiFi capability which was what this article was all about. The fact that Microsoft is taking a different approach on features makes a perfect apples to apples comparison impossible.

I believe each persons personal feature preferences will help them decide which product works best for them. As I stated earlier, the new Zune's stack up very well with the IPod (all models) and I believe upon closer inspection there will be an increasing number of people choosing to own a Zune.
by markdoiron September 22, 2008 3:16 PM PDT
I use my Zune as a home audio system sound source. For that, the wi-fi feature is a great, little add-on to the automatic wi-fi synching with my PC. My son uses his Zune primarily while at Oklahoma University--where he finds that wi-fi listening and downloading is a great boon. The fact that the author, or whoever, can't find a compatible wi-fi network is really not that relevant for most folks--most of us confine ourselves to a few locations. And, if wi-fi isn't working at one of them, maybe it will work at the next. Then we'll download the song and have it on the hard drive for play at our whim.

Comparing it to an iPod Touch? Ridiculous, but since some insist let's talk about subscription music. Oh, no subscription music for iPods. That's right, it really doesn't matter since studies show that most iPod users are content to not get their music off the iTunes. Otherwise, there would be an iPod subscription service. Until iPod gets a subscription service, it's pointless to compare the Zune's wi-fi features with any of those devices. --mark d.
Reply to this comment
by G-hero47 September 22, 2008 3:31 PM PDT
The people at he apple store probably would have kicked you out seeing you had a zune. I've been to the apple store, it's in the metrion, right?
Reply to this comment
by ace10134 September 22, 2008 5:15 PM PDT
There's 8 people at my school that I know that have a Zune. Plus, there's probably even more that I don't even know. 3 of those kids ride my bus, and I have to say; even though i have a Zune 80 myself, when I saw another kid with a Zune 80 on my bus, I was just reminded of how beautiful Zunes are.
Reply to this comment
by bajanx September 23, 2008 3:13 AM PDT
Apple fanboys need to start focusing on there own players and stop hating on the Zune. Except for Ipod Touch owners Its so obvious that they are so jealous of the zune and all of it's features. What ipod owner doesn't wish they had a built in FM radio, wireless, a subscription service for all the music you can DL. Seriously guys, what does the ipod have that the zune doesn't. A crap load of accessories that all do the same thing just made by a million different makers. Zune owners don't care about all those accessories because almost everything is built into the player. No need for all the extras. The zune has maybe one or two necessary accessories and their all in car stuff unless you going for a speaker system and those are available if needed. As far as the battery is concerned i think the ipods battery would also take a hit if it had all the features the zune has. If half of you guys actually use this player and new 3.0 software for more than minute you would see why its better than the Ipods. Bottom line, it didn't take me long to switch after staying with my cousin and her zune for a week, and it didn't take my wife long to switch either after i got mine. Just do yourselves a favor and either buy a zune or an Ipod touch/phone or you will always be hating and trolling everytime there is an article about Zune on Cnet or any other website for that matter . Nanos and the classic are behind the curve and need big updates. Really? shake to shuffle is the best apple could come up with. Looks like Jobs dropped the ball on this one. The ZUNE PLAYER AND NEW 3.0 SOFTWARE ROCKS SON. Believe it!!
Reply to this comment
by Thomas_Trumble September 23, 2008 4:23 AM PDT
The Zune 3.0 software and a Zune pass are the only reasons to start accessing public wifi with the Zune. I just started and have had a hell of a time finding and logging into wifi hot spots, but you give me hope. Cambridge, may not be as big as San Francisco, but we should be able to challenge you for wifi per capita.

Zune haters give it up - why so challenged by our not buying iPods? I sure don't have a problem with you buying yours and I'm loving my Zune. Can't we all just enjoy our differences and hope that competition brings out the best in both of our mp3 player choices?
Reply to this comment
by Drezen September 23, 2008 7:55 AM PDT
"One day I did see someone with a Zune and they were holding it in a way that looked like they were trying to hide it from anyone else to see...like they were embarrassed they didn't have an iPod. "

Did it occur to you that they may actually have been trying to avoid getting mugged?

I've installed the 3.0 update and noticed another incremental improvement in the software, which was actually in a good working state already following the previous update. It does like to 'nanny' the user to an extent, which takes some getting used to, but on the whole I find it a more streamlined package than iTunes, which looks after itself with very minimal input from me. I rip a CD and the mp3s are automatically added to the library, my podcasts manage themselves and when I charge the Zune it syncs automatically via WiFi.

Of course, the new roaming WiFi feature is of no use to users outside North America, as we can't access Zune Marketplace yet. The battery life isn't fantastic, but it's not short enough for me to find it an issue like I do with my Treo. I make sure I switch off WiFi when I'm out of the house though, as it eats up the battery quite noticably and the chances of me running into another Zune user are remote anyway.
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