October 11, 2007 4:16 PM PDT

Should AT&T be held responsible for NSA cooperation?

The Bush administration's remarks about retroactive legal protection for telecommunications companies show Washington has become an even more surreal place than usual.

First, President Bush said on Wednesday that federal law "must grant liability protection to companies who are facing multi-billion-dollar lawsuits only because they are believed to have assisted in the efforts to defend our nation following the 9/11 attacks."

Then Ken Wainstein, the Assistant Attorney General for the National Security Division, waxed eloquent with a surfeit of "allegedlys":

Here you have allegedly companies that stepped up and answered the government's request to assist the government in efforts to protect against a second wave of attacks after 9/11 and protect against the ongoing terrorist threat... And any such companies who would have undertaken anything like that would have presumably done it for that very purpose. As far as I can see, there's no real, you know, other ulterior motive or economic motive for doing it. And it just seems at sort of a gut level it seems to me to be unfair to now turn around and have them face, you know, not only the costs and difficult consequences of having to defend against litigation, but based on what I read, you know, potentially crushing liability, you know, to the tune of billions of dollars. And so it's sort of a fairness matter. That's where I come out.

I also, as we've mentioned before, this litigation does run the risk of disclosing secret information, very classified, sensitive information. Because as you know, all such operations, any alleged operations like this, would be very sensitive and be the kind of thing our adversaries would want to know about. And whenever you litigate something like this, you run the risk that you're going to disclose this information.

And another thing that also resonates with me is that, you know, any companies that might allegedly have assisted us in the effort against terrorists might well not want it disclosed that, you know, for security reasons, that they did help us out. These would be--any such companies would be companies that would have valid concerns for the safety of their own assets and their own personnel.

Did you catch the last argument? AT&T and the other telecommunications companies that may have opened their networks to the Feds are worried about "the safety of their own assets and their own personnel" if word got out.

This is a fine example of McCullagh's Law in action: Unless you vote my way, Americans will die. (Is the Bush administration really serious about this, by the way? Do they think that gun-toting privacy activists will start kidnapping or shooting AT&T network technicians?)

Anyway, maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but it strikes me that if a company violated the law, they should be held accountable. I might feel differently if the law is unjust, but I'm not convinced that's the case here.

18 USC 2511 generally says that anyone who "intercepts" a private electronic communication or "discloses" the results of that interception shall be imprisoned for up to five years. In addition, 50 USC 1810 says that anyone "who has been subjected to an electronic surveillance" of this sort can sue for punitive damages and attorney's fees.

AT&T and any other company that may have cooperated with the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping scheme knew these two laws existed to protect Americans' privacy. Its executives knew that breaking the law carried civil and criminal penalties. If they nevertheless went along with the NSA's secret requests--and violated their own customers' privacy in the process -- why shouldn't their executives and shareholders pay the price?

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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 19 comments
Hold them accountable for breaking the law - Bush and Gonzales too!!!!!
by jpeckcnet October 11, 2007 5:02 PM PDT
Of course ATT should be held accountable for breaking the law. The laws were on the books and in effect at the time. They broke it. They need to be punished. Period.

Hopefully the court will rule that the law was broken, in spite of Bush admin attempts to use secrecy classifications to avoid such judgements.

The Bush attempt to "retroactively" shield ATT and other carriers from penalty for breaking the law is an affront the our basic rule of law. We should all be outraged, as I am.

How preposterous. the argument seems to be - "Yeah, they broke the law, but we should let them off the hook because by breaking the law they helped my administration". This sounds like something Nixon could have used to "retroactively" shield the Watergate burglars.

That this president has been able to avoid impeachment is an indictment of the current state of the legal system and the supposed system of checks and balances in our government.

Sign me as,
A Disgusted Citizen
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While I agree with you fully...
by Urza9814 October 11, 2007 5:57 PM PDT
I have a feeling he wasn't talking about protection from 'gun toting privacy activists'. In a war, intelligence is everything. If terrorists know who is supplying intel to the government, who would be a logical target? By AT&T helping the government to catch terrorists, they become the enemy of the terrorists.

...Unlike corporations like Microsoft, who are also terrorizing America, and therefore best buddies with the terrorists.
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I don't agree
by mabender October 11, 2007 6:10 PM PDT
I don't agree with your thinking. Companies are in business to make money. It will be the employees and the customers that will pay for the charges. The profits from these lawsuits will go to a small number of lawyers.
I also don't think its fair that a company trys to act in a manner consitent with a Goverment request then be held liable for it. I mean put yourself in AT&T place. If they did not do this then everyone would howl at them for not cooperating. Especially if their lack of partipation was somehow connected to another attack.
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Absolutely Right
by ecotopian October 11, 2007 7:28 PM PDT
This administration has lied, cheated, and overstepped
constitutional limits every step of the way, and if AT&T broke the
law to help them, then AT&T must be held accountable.
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Doesn't matter
by dcase99 October 11, 2007 8:34 PM PDT
Where the money goes or who it goes to, what matters is that they
have to pay it out as punishment for breaking the law. If the
employees and shareholders have to suffer then maybe they should
have elected more responsible board members.

Simple, break the law, get caught, pay the piper
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Didn't these words come outof Bush's mouth?
by ordaj October 12, 2007 6:48 AM PDT
"We're a nation of laws. You can take comfort in that fact, that we have laws. We're a nation of laws."

But those laws should only apply to the little people, obviously. If you're well-connected or a big business, well, that's another story.
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This country and this government...
by Heebee Jeebies October 12, 2007 8:24 AM PDT
are so screwed up. Breaking the law has little meaning any more especially given a president and his group of dummies that lie like there is no tomorrow. The voters that actually buy in to his bull poop and are far to stupid to see the reality of the fact that Bush alone has done more to harm the US than any terrorist organization could have ever done. In less than 8 years Bush has flushed this country so far down the toilet we can't even afford to deal with health care for the sick or to repair and maintain or bridges and roads. Our military is being shredded and the general feeling of this country around world is we are ****.

Or government, states and local authorities are doing everything they can to allow ILLEGAL society draining leaches from places like Mexico to not only break our laws by coming here illegally, but to allow cities and such to ignore the law as well. So why should it be any surprise that the powers that be want to provide protection for large campaign supporters that do the Bush administrations bidding and break the law.

I am asshamed of this country and I am sicked by the Bush administration that has taken what was a wonderful country and turned it to Mexico two with the rest of the world wishing we would just shrivel up and die.

Right now and for the foreseeable future this country sucks. Way to go Mr. President.

Robert
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Shrub and friends should 'do time'
by F. Firkle October 12, 2007 9:47 AM PDT
The facts as I know them are these;

1.) According to FBI Agents Wright, Rowley, and Vinson's (spelling) testimony and commentary, as well as that of others, there were many opportunities for the government to have stopped the occurences of 9-11-01 several times over.

2.) A German agent testified under oath that the U.S. gov. was warned about 9/11 before the fact.

3.) Condi Rice was given, and ignored, briefings that disclosed that the specific types of attacks that occured might well occur, and the Shrub cabinet didn't view the reports as important enough to even discuss them in meeting. Condi then testified in numerous settings that "No one cold've anticipated these kinds of attacks." (You mean, except for those holding briefings in their tiny little hands that said that these kinds of attacks were on the agenda...)

4.) GW Bush has REPEATEDLY acted with disregard for the law since taking office, has never apologized (that I'm aware of) for any crimes committed by his adminstration, and has had the audacity to believe that he can change legislation put before him by Congress, merely by adding his delusional 'signing statements'; an assertion found mostly lacking in legal merit by many legal scholars.

5.) Despite Mr. McConnel's assertions to Congress that the recent arrest of terror suspects in Germany was a result of the illegal NSA surveillance programs, (as his way of leveraging a satisfactory-to-GW vote in the electronic spying legislation where the Dems recently tucked tail, sold out the Bill of Rights, and capitulated to George's fascism), later news reports stated that there was no evidence whatsoever that the arrests in Germany were the result of GW's illegal wire-tap programs. On the contrary, they were the result of other intel, and of the German's good, hard work.

6.) AT&T has asserted that their customers have no ownership interests in their company records, implying, if not stating outright, that the records were the sole property of AT&T, and thus indicating what AT&T REALLY thinks of those who've funded the building of their little communications empire through their patronage..

I am a -former- AT&T customer. I had received a copy of an IP address via e-mail, via an article from the blog at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, to search for in my expanded headers of my e-mails, to determine whether or not my e-mails (had passed/were passing) through one or more of AT&T's suspect 'splitting and routing' stations, including San Francisco's suspect 'secret room.'

I was, and am, also aware that not being an AT&T customer doesn't protect one's e-mails from passing through that system, but not being their customer DOES mean that one is no longer buying steak and lobster for the unconstitutional sell-outs who run/own the place, for having knowingly violated the Bill of Rights; apparently unnecessarily, and in full knowledge of the wire-tapping laws.

After YEARS of AT&T patronage, my family dropped AT&T's services like a hot rock, and told them exactly why they were being dropped, as did THOUSANDS of others.

Shrub's threats of veto are his manner of extorting compliance from Congress. He's gotten his way with them, just as he did with his parents, growing up a spoiled trust-fund brat in Texas; tantrums and ultimatums.

hold AT&T accountable for their KNOWINGLY violating the laws. And while we're at it, hold Dick Cheney, Shrub, and any others involved, liable as well. And give them all a taste of Leavenworth..... for a while.
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Any Communication that cerates crime we all need to make it our business.
by Carnel Renner October 12, 2007 9:50 AM PDT
The ease dropping, to help fight crime, I am all for but when the Government uses American citizens for leading the world in technology, and espically if the citizen did not sign any papers for study of a human being, or raise his hand to say I'll do it, and espically for free. This is where the problem is everybody talking about national serveillence, The Internet the way it came together it is connected to a human being, and technology system, thats how the internet system works, and the government is using this American not only is the American very smart, but in the national security, has been involved in removing 4 leaders in the world, because of a threate action of harm to another human being. But if the government exposes this American it is the nation's highest law ever against the government, besides exposing this American, may cause harm or take away the natural study that is being done. This American is the first ever in The World, to duplicate a robot, from a human being of artifical intelligence. He came up with the idea of a unmanded Airplane, to save a life, Life is very important to this American, and The American name is Mr. Carnel Renner, from Stockton, California. Who created the orginal complaint of the domestic serveillence, to presiedent Bush, and to Dianne Feinstein, and Mr. Renner is leading the creating from the mind the cutting edge, of global technology. Remember when vice President Al Gore said he created the internet, well that Blurting out that information that Al Gore created the internet is not true but I can tell you that Al Gore was told by Mr. Carnel Renner to say those words because of Mr. Carnel is the leading Director of all 15 Department of National Security, not offically, but private sector of our nation U.S. Humanitarian/Global Scientist, representive, our nations highest national security , the nation's highest communicator, and highest leader intechnology working with hundreds of engineers, Scientist, and many other facts that are placed into books for today's class room learning, and that America and the world is facts. The argument with Carnel and president Bush everybody does not understand, is that the sensors that are plugged into Carnel's brain, and on the other end which can read and understand everthing That Carnel thinks about are harming Mr. Carnel Renner, and torturing Mr. Carnel, this is the complaint, and the government will not do nothing about it and if you don't know much about how this system works and the first time you read this, as an outsider, I would never believe this, I think this guy Carnel is crazy, full of ********, needs attention, Carnel is reaching out to his best tool the American people to help remove this system, it's the only one in the world. Bill Clinton knows about and he will not do nothing about neither, they make to much money. Carnel was President Bill Clinton highest advisor, while he was in the white house, and between the two, and others they created 1.4 trillion dollars to give to President George w. Bush, which he never applied it to our country to make the money work better. All the money made from Carnel goes to The United States resourse, Carnel never in 14 years got a dime, now what do you all think about you country the way it works. Since the computer and the internet came together, don't you think if it was you you should get atleast 5 percent of every cent made from the internet system, Gods truth. Carnel will die, and his family will never learn the truth about his hard work, only if the American People helps Carnel to remove that satellite, over Stockton, California, that is connected to him also aircrafts, in the sky. So come on American help Carnel from being tortured, first and tehn we will work on Government using compines to bust citizen of crime. The government is torturing right now over in Stockton, California, and email everybost to email Stockton, City Mayor and President Bush, and I bet maybe we will get the nations attention. Talk about a head of time I heard its been going on over 40 years, and I've been plugged into this satellite since 1972 that I know of. NASA is giving Carnel a gift, lifting off into space on October 23 which is the date of the birth of the internet, 14 years birthday of Carnel's had work of pure hell. So NASA is setting the clock of real time , patattention America is is leading the world, don't get left behind on trending the world with real time of what is really going on pay attention, becvause it's all yours, and it's ablast of energy to be apart of, so grab on Fans, and lets lead the world, with Carnel, nickname Goreyen14. Sincerely, U.S. Humanitarian/Global Scientist, Mr. Carnel Renner. Please feel free to talk.
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NO EX POST FACTO LAW!
by rhett121 October 12, 2007 4:02 PM PDT
Ever heard of the Constitution of the United States of America?
Maybe someone should point out Article 1, Section 10 which states
"there shall be no ex post facto law". It's not even an amendment,
it's right there in the beginning, that's how important it was to our
democracy (rest her soul). AT&T should be severely punished for
violating the rights of the people so freely and happily.
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AT&T is consistent
by NoVista October 12, 2007 4:53 PM PDT
from the beginning. Elisha Gray should have been granted the patent on the telephone, he filed first. And thus, Ma Bell was born on a lie. But Gray got his revenge, he founded Western Electric which became the supply arm of AT&T.

For years, they ran rings around the FCC on tariff hearings. But hubris led to the big breakup.

I had nearly ten years' seniority when I chucked it in. AT&T never minded screwing its employes, customers and the government. Why should it be any difference with the new Frankenstein monster.

At the same time, the usual punishment seems to be a big fine. As if they cared. But maybe the powers that be WOULD care if the suitable punishment was jail time. That would be true accountability.
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The way it is
by towerclimber37 October 12, 2007 9:20 PM PDT
I've read all the responses to this story. I'm amazed.
I see people saying that they're ashamed of their country. People who say that AT&T should be punished. People quoting laws and the constitution when they haven't got the common sense to pour pee out of a boot with instructions on the heel, much less look to the common defense of their countrymen.
AT&T co-operated with the NSA because they saw what happened to 3000 of our countrymen when people who don't LIKE Americans decide to act.
(remember, they didn't like us during the CLINTON administration and acted during the Bush administration).
when someone speaks up in defense of their actions (yes, this IS allowed bruce, everyone has the same rights you have) you curse them.
Shame on you AND your parents for teaching you bad manners. EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion, but remember folks, we're all Americans. How about we start acting like it and look out for our own?
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About News - Politics and Law

Lead contributor Declan McCullagh has covered politics, technology, and Washington, D.C., for more than a decade, which has turned him into an iconoclast and a skeptic of anyone who says, "We oughta have a new federal law against this."

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