March 28, 2008 3:59 PM PDT

Nvidia to blame for many early Vista crashes

There is a ton of interesting information in the documents that have been released as part of the Windows Vista Capable lawsuit.

There's the juicy e-mails that show Microsoft caving to pressure from Intel and lowering the graphics requirements to get the Vista Capable sticker. There's also Dell outlining all of the problems it had with Microsoft in getting Vista to market as well as with its many readiness programs.

For those that want to give the full documents a read, the Seattle Post-Intellingencer has posted the complete PDF files of the documents, linked to from this blog by Todd Bishop.

Another area that got some notice this week was the inordinate number of early Vista crashes that were attributed to Nvidia, according to a list from early 2007. Nvidia was cited as causing nearly 30 percent of early Vista crashes (the exact time of the report is not listed), while Microsoft itself was to blame for nearly 18 percent. Intel and ATI each accounted for about 9 percent of crashes, according to the documents.

"These issues are a year and a half old," Nvidia PR director Derek Perez said on Friday. Perez noted the company took a number of steps in response to the issues, including establishing a Web site where people could report such issues and said the company made significant progress in reducing those errors. "We continue to improve drivers," he said.

In a statement, Microsoft also pointed to the complexities inherent in creating new graphics drivers.

"Microsoft takes exhaustive steps in testing hardware compatibility internally, as well as by working directly with our partners, to address compatibility long before customers experience an issue," the software maker said. "However, testing can only be conducted under so many different circumstances, particularly with such an exceptionally complex code that graphic drivers have. Understanding this, Microsoft has set up a system to help quickly identify the problems, work to fix them and, if warranted, potentially push them through to customers via Windows Update. NVIDIA has taken similar steps, and since launching Windows Vista, Microsoft has seen great progress in addressing potential issues by NVIDIA."

One of the questions I have is which is worse--having buggy drivers, as Nvidia clearly did--or pushing Microsoft to lower its graphics requirements to include less-than-optimal graphics, as Intel appears to have done. Nvidia can and has improved its drivers, but there were a whole lot of systems pushed out in 2006 with the Intel graphics chip that did not initially qualify for the Vista capable logo.

Recent posts from Beyond Binary
Adobe says Photoshop Express glitch fixed
Mundie: Microhoo totally dead, unless...
Glitch delays Photoshop Express update
Microsoft denies putting 'copyright cop' in Zune
Microsoft to show new search tech this month
Add a Comment (Log in or register) 30 comments (Page 1 of 1)
Never Nvidia again
by cdotspace March 28, 2008 5:58 PM PDT
I have a Nvidia card on my Dell (With Windows XP) and I have nothing but trouble with it. I'm thinking of removing it for almost anything else.
Reply to this comment View reply
Interesting to note...
by WildmanCAL March 28, 2008 6:05 PM PDT
I find it interesting it was Intel who pressured MS to change the Vista logo. Guess we can tell who has just as much muscle in the tech industry as MS. As for the crashes, this reminds me of Win95 and its driver woes. When the OS came out, there were NO DirectX compatible drivers (to my knowledge) available for any of the video cards yet the chispet/card makers had been working with Win95 for at least a year. Same goes for Vista. Most chipset/card makers didn't have released/optimized drivers for their products when it hit the shelves. Who's to blame for that one?
Reply to this comment View reply
nvlddmkm driver crash 99% of my reports
by timber2005 March 28, 2008 7:40 PM PDT
The nvlddmkm.sys crash issue is REDICULOUS. It happens across OS, across diffrent motherboards and configs, and the only solution from nVidia is to UNDERCLOCK the card and/or system ram. And thats what those 30% of crashes are. If anyone is interested, check out http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=nvlddmkm&spell=1 Espically nVidia forums with the hundred page topic on the issue.
Reply to this comment View reply
Grove giveth, but Gates taketh...
by gabeheim March 29, 2008 5:34 AM PDT
Except now it is Otellini that giveth and Ballmer that taketh. And Ballmer saw that gates taketh well, and ballmer said, let ballmer taketh well, like gates taketh well. But before Otellini giveth, Grove sayeth that the giveth must be less because the law of moore shall fail, thus Otellini giveth less. But Gates still taketh, and ballmer still taketh more though otellini giveth less. And thus, Otellini asketh ballmer, do not taketh more than I can giveth. And thus said ballmer, I shall labeleth so that it is capable and they shall not think that I taketh too much. Microsoft lives in a new world that they were not ready for. They just can't expect Moore's law to automatically bail them out of bad design/performance issues. Is it really that unreasonable to ask MS to support a then 2 year old chipset that was still in popular use? How long did the ATI Radeon 7000 hang around in the laptop market? Regarding Nvidia, thats the way drivers go, especially in a closed source system (MS is the only completely closed desktop vendor). I'm not saying they need to open source, but since you can't exactly LXR the ms source, they might need to provide more support to Nvidia and other OEMS. Also, what caused the crashes? Was it Nvidia code, or MS API's nvidia was using. Was nvidia using them wrong, or did MS change them? Saying it was nvidia drivers says very very little.
Reply to this comment View reply
Nvidia crashing.
by Imalittleteapot March 29, 2008 5:39 AM PDT
Of all the complaints I've had about Vista. Strangely crashing wasn't one of them. I heard somewhere Microsoft changed the driver model at the last minute meaning hardware makers had to release with crap drivers. Have sense lost the source, but here is another. http://www.nytimes.com/idg/IDG_002570DE00740E18002573FE006B7266.html?ref=technology Apparently NVidia drivers are bad across operating systems though so that doesn't matter. However, this is really good news for Nvidia fans. After a news article like this people will be getting the best darn Nvidia drivers anyone could imagine. Maybe that'll learn them to optimize the drivers for Crysis benchmarks (which some say does no good in actual gameplay) instead of debugging the code. Unless Nvidia is a bunch of complete retards.
Reply to this comment View reply
Improper installs
by Guru Master March 29, 2008 8:22 PM PDT
Just because the problem report generated points to nVidia Drivers does not mean that it is solely a driver issue. It is in my experience that the drivers were not properly installed. I will say that nVidia's installer should have accounted for what was already installed and cleaned it up first, but it did not at the time, although in fairness specific instructions were given to uninstall the old drivers first. As we know WHQL nVidia drivers are now available from Windows Update, so I find the only point of this article is to recreate year old FUD (and generate some revenue for this site). I hope nVidia isn't upset about those jumping to conclusions here. I would be.
Reply to this comment View reply
This is why....
by perfectblue97 March 30, 2008 2:18 AM PDT
...I'm still using XP. Vista is going to have to be a lot more stable and a lot less resource hungry before I'll consider using it. Let's all hope that Microsoft learns from this and that they make their next OS a light OS (Some chance,huh).
Reply to this comment View reply
Crap OS Maker Blames Vendor - pix @ 11.
by Penguinisto March 31, 2008 7:03 AM PDT
Please... this is the same Nvidia that has a nice solid history of making stable drivers, is careful to place caveats and cautions about any possible conflicts and instabilities on their website when you go get the drivers, and seems to have little problem with making stable drivers for Linux, Mac OSX, and even earlier versions of Windows, up to /including XP. ...so what makes Vista so hard to code for? Therein lies your answer - and a smart OS maker wouldn't go around petulantly blaming them (esp. when nearly everyone else is having a tough go of coding for Vista as well at that level). Instead, we got a pack of stupid finger-pointing at the same 3rd-party vendors that can make or break your product. Personally, if MSFT blamed me, I'd forget about making the drivers run DX10 all that well, and just shoot for stability. That way, everyone will slowly realize that Vista is not a decent gaming/graphics platform, and take their business elsewhere. /P
Reply to this comment View all 3 replies
MS Specs for Drivers
by Renegade Knight March 31, 2008 10:57 AM PDT
Which is the real problem Nvidea drivers or MS specifications making drivers needlessly difficult to write for Vista? As a user I gained nothing by the artifically complex drivers mandated for Vista. MS gained a huge black eye for a future service that I will refuse to use because it's backed by MS.
Reply to this comment View reply
And in related news...
by AppleSuxLeo March 31, 2008 8:34 PM PDT
Cnet is the biggest supporter of Apple`s false advertising campaign. Use FlashBlock and stick it to them !
Reply to this comment
Powered by Jive Software
advertisement
  • About Beyond Binary

  • During her seven years at CNET News.com, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days most of her attention is focused on Microsoft.


    Beyond Binary is a look at how technology is changing our lives and the people behind all that life-changing stuff, with an extra emphasis on that which emanates from Redmond, Wash.

Add this feed to your online news reader
Google
Yahoo
MSN

Stuff I'm reading:

Latest blog posts from News.com

Featured blogs

Coop's Corner by Charles Cooper Charles Cooper weighs in on Silicon Valley hijinks, and he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

Defense in Depth by Robert Vamosi Covering the latest in computer viruses and computer crime.

Geek Gestalt by Daniel Terdiman At the tech culture nexus of video games, fire art, and virtual worlds.

Green Tech Fresh green tech news and commentary.

One More Thing by Tom Krazit Tom Krazit takes on the tech phenomenon that is Apple, and keeps a close watch on the chip industry.

Outside the Lines by Dan Farber When business and technology meet, that's when things get interesting.

The Iconoclast by Declan McCullagh Exploring the intersection of politics and technology.

The Social by Caroline McCarthy Exploring all facets of social media and tech culture.

Underexposed by Stephen Shankland Coverage of digital photography, science, and open-source software.

advertisement
On TechRepublic: Top 5 operating systems you never used
Advanced
search
Advanced
search
Visit other CNET Networks sites: