AT&T Tech Support 360August 31, 2006 4:00 AM PDT
Cons in the virtual gaming world
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The banker, a player who goes by the alias "Cally," has admitted to the scam, and even bragged about it. It's unlikely, however, that any action will be taken against him--online or offline. In the freewheeling world of "Eve," what the virtual banker did was distasteful, but it probably didn't break any rules.
The bank scam itself, known as the "EIB scandal"--after Eve Intergalactic Bank, the name of Cally's operation--was a pretty simple con job. "Somebody makes it big by stealing from other people," explained Mark Smith, an "Eve Online" player who watched the EIB scandal unfold earlier this month. "Eventually the house of cards crumbles and the scheme is exposed. In fact, that's pretty much exactly how this thing came about."
The aftermath, however, is much more complicated, and industry experts say it should raise warning flags for gamers who spend money on auction sites and exchanges to buy items used in virtual worlds. Some even think such virtual scandals could end up being settled in real-world courts.
"This stuff is real money," said journalist Julian Dibbell, author of "Play Money: Or, How I Quit My Day Job And Struck It Rich In Virtual Loot Farming." According to Dibbell, "once the money trade is there, this stuff can be sold as quickly and sometimes more quickly than real currency."
So-called massive multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) have seen their fair share of skullduggery. Last year, fantasy MMORPG "EverQuest" was plagued by a massive counterfeit scheme, and this spring "Second Life" faced a barrage of denial-of-service attacks. And with crime came punishment: In the "EverQuest" situation, the hackers responsible lost their accounts in the game; and the denial-of-service attacks on "Second Life" attracted a federal investigation.
But what happens when the rules of a game allow players to be subject to trickery, robbery, embezzlement, fraud and other deeds that make recent corporate scandals look mild by comparison? That's the situation with the EIB scandal. In many popular MMORPGs, such as "World of Warcraft" and "Dark Age of Camelot," Cally wouldn't have come anywhere close to walking free after something like the EIB scandal, Smith said. Rules of etiquette are tough, strictly enforced, and malicious players "just don't have any real impact over other players" because they tend to be quickly discovered and exiled, he said.
"Eve Online" is far less regulated, and its end user license agreement (EULA) make that clear. "The behavior of Cally and his EIB is despicable, but allowed. As long as he kept all of his work within the boundaries of the EULA, there's nothing ('Eve Online' creator) CCP Games will do to touch him," Smith said.
Indeed, the game's creator, based in Iceland, hopes to remain neutral in this situation. "CCP does not intervene in such cases and will only get involved if a game exploit was used, which we have not found any indication of in this case," CCP CEO Magnús Bergsson wrote in an e-mail to CNET News.com.
Reactions to the EIB scandal peppered MMORPG forums and blogs for days after the incident. Opinions were mixed. Some players were outraged, while others shrugged the incident off with an attitude of "whatever, it's not real money." One poster in the MMORPG section of the QJ.Net blog site suggested that "Eve Online" players, after agreeing to the anything-goes EULA, ought to know that their virtual possessions run the risk of theft: "It's part of the game," the commenter said. Going after Cally "would be like suing someone you lost to at poker."
See more CNET content tagged:
scandal,
EverQuest,
Second Life,
role-playing game,
denial of service
The game is still running ( www.VARGONMUD.com ), still free, and still fun.
But i still can't spend my VARGONBUCKS.
I think our government is just running out of things to make illegal.
Without the taxes the governments of the real-world could care-less.
Trading something on Ebay, for real currency, does interest the government. In that case a person is performing a personal service (that's probably how a public servant will justify taxing it), and if that service isn't rendered, the deal was not completed.
The truth is the governments of the world just wants tax money. So if you want protection, start paying the oldest bribe. And you'd be surprized what a real-world govenment will do for a buck.
Since most of these games run on a theme, any action taken within the game, so long as it follows the theme, is legal.
On Eve Online, you can be a trader and make an honest buck or you can be a pirate and steal from people. If piracy is allowed, why can't virtual money scams?
So, for an online game, the creators of that game determine the rules and consequences and enforce them.
Therefore, if someone does not want to be swindled or robbed, that person should frequent online games which have rules that prevent that.
Besides that, I don't see a problem. Even if the actions are totally illegal, say in the contemporary real-world cultures on this planet, that is irrelevant. I feel it's irrelevant because the real-world societies are not the one where the event took place.
What I dont understand is all this concern about the swindled ISK's selling on eBay. How is this any different from killing people's characters in other MMORPGs and selling the loot? Thats been going on for years now.
I find that the most interesting thing about this topic is the fact that all of these virtual games are supposed to be a replica of real life, and sure enough, such scams happening in reality are seen reflected in the virtual world. Here's some more on this issue...
http://www.iwantmyess.com/?p=78
The one scenario I can think of where this becomes dangerous is when people use a virtual environment to hone their skills for the real world. From what I've seen, there really is no good way to police this activity other than the gaming communities policing themselves. For the most part, I think they do a pretty good job--at least in hindsight.
Where real money IS used and has a REAL exchange rate based on the US Dollar....
Any time there is Real money exchanged for goods or items and is set up like in Entropia to do so the authorities SHOULD get involved... but ONLY under warrented circumstances.
Conspiracy to defraud some one is an international crime. if some one in Project Entropia hands something over to some one else it is thier responsibility...
but only to the extent that there wasn't the real life crime of conspiring to steal...that comes under the terms of Raqueteering (You know like the Mafia n organised crime??) This should and eventually WILL be investigated by the police and the authorities...
I agree where it is virtual money and no realtime funds are required to play (even though people break the EULA and do purchase virtual funds with real money) but those who do so are actually breaking the rules themselves to "Buy" those virtual funds in the first place... they haven't got a leg to stand on.....
In the case of Entropia where there is an actual registered Exchange Rate all fraud SHOULD be investigated and a determination made as to the culpability of the person who has done the scam as to whether it was pre-meditated or not...
if Premeditated..then charge the bastards like the criminals they are...
I feel that this is ONLY pertinant to Entropia Universe as that it is the only Virtual universe as they label themselves to have an official exchange rate..But I also see this type of business model being used in other games/virtual universes in the future.
With the companies participation on the market exchange, Entropia should be FORCED to investigate the premeditativeness of the act and to deal with the proper authorities accordingly..
This is a very Narrow remit and is a very real aspect of online life now..but as others follow suit with this business model they (and entropia) should be Forced to comply with international law.
As for the banker scandal... well it's part n parcel of the game..stated so in the EULA, doesn't involve any "Legitimate" real life cash so is a bunch of sour grapes on the part of those scammed in that particular instance.
Only where Real live cash IS part of the (and legitimatly not just on the side like in Eve Online) should the authorities get involved in any way, as that it is the responsibility of the game company to enforce thier EULA and thier set rules.
But when thier IS real cash involved that is QUITE a different matter..
Thing is only 1 online location fits that pre-requsit so far.....
like what another player did? Don't go crying to the cops. Go
crying to the people who make the rules for the game. It's a lot
more efficient option.
After all, if you go to the real life cops, they have to investigate
the game (If they choose to investigate at all). Then, if they find
something wrong, they have to tell the game developers to fix
the problem, in which case, you got the government controling
all MMORPGs. If you go crying to the game developers, they can
investigate on their own, and fix the problem. Skip a whole
organization and save time.
Telling the government to arrest people who steal VIRTUAL
MONEY is STUPID! We already got plenty of other crimes that
they have to deal with, why add one that can be delt with in
game?
Or here's another solution: Virtual Cops. Players that choose a
police or bounty hunter career who can arrest people who steal
the electronic game funds. You can throw those people in a
virtual jail and leave them to rot then, giving them a chance to
virtually tunnel out.
You see? It can all be delt with IN GAME. Plenty of creative ways
to deal with it. We don't need to freaking have the government
tell people how to play their freaking MMORPGs!
Or take away their virtual house/property. After all, its a game, and
games can be reprogrammed/modified.
You learn quickly that this is very much like the real world, you better watch ur back cause no one else can do that better than you..
I read awhile back about another operation that occured within EVE itself...I was shocked and dismayed at it at the time but, wasn't a player of the game yet...Now I have perspective and realize that it is just part of the game...
I will say this tho, If this person or person's were conning in the real world then they should be taken to court...If they were selling non-existent items or such to people for real money...However, The people tho who have used real money to buy stuff in the virtual world are just basicly ppl who want to take shortcuts to get there and any loss they suffered is on their heads...
So, basically, the real life equivalent of 1,000,000 isk to USD is $0.00. If someone feels they must assign a USD value to it and go outside of the rules to apply that value, that is their own perception. When I play the game, I understand that it only has value in the game world and that's where it will always stay.
This guy set up a great scam and should be hunted down by the same players he conived as EVE is an open enough game to allow this. The players willingly gave him isk because they wanted to have a way to easilly make more isk. It's a risk they took in-game.
Prosecuting or getting real law enforcement envolved is bogus. This would be like having your friend locked up in real life for swiping a $500 from the bank in Monopoly.
If it happens in game then it is part of the game experience.
If gamers don?t like it and complain to the developers then a new experience will be created for them. Over time online games will mature and a range of options will be out there.
People who buy credits off line for in game use are entitled to legal rights for the off-line transaction. Once they take delivery of the credits then it is in-game rules that apply. It?s like any game where you can win or lose. In some case the in game rules may allow cheating, stealing and killing. To me this is all part of the fun and experience.
On the Cally incident specifically. From the posts here the game is all about piracy, so where?s the problem with the players actions. He used underhanded methods to gain credits ? sounds the same as stealing to me. Enjoy the experience.
Real world ethics are suspended for in-game worlds. Otherwise why bother.
Game on!
- This is What Makes EVE Fun
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by StephenmG
September 21, 2006 9:48 PM PDT
- Eve is suppose to be a dark universe. Stuff like this is what makes it fun. The rule of thumb in EVE is dont fly what you can not afford to loose. Same thing with investments in eve, if you can not afford to invest the isk, then don't.
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See all 38 Comments >>As far as Virtual money having value, Selling Items or ISk on ebay or any other site is agaisnt the EULA. Accounts will be banned without refund if your caught. The artile mentions the EULA not enforcing scams such as this, but makes no mention that the EULA prohibits exchange with real life cash.
I would like to laws protecting those who commit "crimes" in virtual worlds that creater, operater, and/or owner of permits protected from civil or criminal action.
Thank you CCP for creating such a great game!