April 27, 2005 11:38 AM PDT
Gates wants to scrap H-1B visa restrictions
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"The theory behind the H-1B (visa)--that too many smart people are coming--that's what's questionable," Gates said Wednesday during a panel discussion at the Library of Congress. "It's very dangerous. You can get this idea that the world is very scary; let's cut back on travel...let's cut back on visas."
Federal quotas on H-1B visas, capped at 65,000 last year, have long been a sore spot for Microsoft and other technology companies. But, Gates said, the increased caliber of research institutions in China and India means that curbs on immigration and guest-workers will pose a greater threat to America's competitiveness than ever before.
Gates' comments verged on sarcastic. He said that "it's almost an issue of a centrally-controlled economy versus" and then trailed off. "I'd certainly get rid of the H-1B visa caps," he added when asked what he would do if he could write U.S. laws. "That's one of the easiest decisions."
Princeton University's president, Shirley Tilghman, also warned of increased competition from abroad--and took aim at the federal government's aggressive denials of visas to foreign students after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Students are "not coming in the numbers they used to," Tilghman said.
The number of foreign students dropped in 2003 for the first time in more than 30 years, the Institute of International Education estimated last fall. It attributed the decline to increased competition from foreign universities and far stricter visa rules.
"I think there was a post-9/11 effort to cut down on visas," added Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat. "I think this was a mistake."
Rep. David Dreier, a California Republican, was left defending stricter immigration rules. "We can't be so naive as to think there is not a very serious problem" with terrorists entering the country, he said.
Microsoft Research head Rick Rashid gave the example of a Microsoft employee in China who was barred by the U.S. government from attending a meeting in the United States after she got married. Gates said even Canadian employees have received similarly poor treatment: "It doesn't make any sense. We'll have Canadians sitting on the border until some bureaucratic thing happens."
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"scrap H1Bs". A major difference.
that they are going to miss out on if they are going to cap the
amount of students coming in to the country. I welcome US
students and tourists to the UK with open arms and a friendly
attitude, they help the UK economy and I work with a couple of
people from the US and they're really great at keeping you
motivated and staying positive. I think the US should be more
liberal in allowing people into the country, without being
careless, and for once I would agree with something Bill Gates is
trying to do, which helps both foreign students and their
respective countries + the US. Hopefully there will be a good
compromise on this issue.
Now the MS conspiracy theorists will claim that I've been fired from my "paid" position as a MS supporter. LoL... ain't free thought great?
He wants an army of people who can point and click to create easy to create but hard to maintain bloat ware applications.
Why? To sell more of his products and to drive down his development costs.
All I can say is GO LINUX!
Foreigners hired under the H1B program have to get paid the same wage as Americans. There is no undercutting. If a company violates the rules, anybody can complain to DoL, and they fine the company that violates the rules (and yes, this has happened.)
Furthermore, it is very shortsighted to believe that only Americans are smart. If qualified people are denied H1B visas, they will just compete against us from their home countries. So it is in fact in the interest of America to have these people here.
there are countless articles showing data the point to this trend.. like this one: http://news.com.com/2100-1022_3-5659116.html
it is painful, as an american myself, to admit that the problem here is that we are no longer the single source of the absolute best and brightest.. but it would be a form of denial to simply blame this entirely on varying engineer personnel costs.
Reality is the world has shrunk; it is not possible to compete in a geographically isolated cluster. When a country decides to close its doors to imports, through several channels the US asks kindly for the country to open to imports. Remember the pressures on Japan? It is not only impossible, but also undesirable; Japan stagnation is rooted in its seclusion.
So, the US nation has to decide whether an impossible coalition of left wing unionized workers and right wing isolationists we-love-fox-news is going to undermine its competitiveness. I would suggest to stop winning and get real. If you don?t swim faster, Bangalore will outpace Silicon Valley. Who knows, maybe your kids will be denied a working visa for India or Brazil in 50 years?
Once I finish my masters at the best technical university here in US, I have to decide if I am going to sell my skills here or abroad. And quite frankly, if things get a little too complicated, not only finding job, but also fighting some of the prejudices expressed on this list, I will leave. The funny thing, I studied for free? So, are you going to use me or should I benefit another country?
BUT, I do agree with Mr. Gates that H-1B should be abolished to help Microsoft. Maybe if Microsoft was able to hire more foreign workers they could fix all the security holes in their products, charge less for their products, and ship them on time.
- Mohan
http://www.garamchai.com/mohan
Is it needed when ANY work is sent outside the U.S.?
I'm a bit confused. If it is my first question, then there is no complaint to be made. Companies can replace their workforce with whoever they'd like. If my second question is true, then there would be a legitimate complaint.
Maybe I am just way off target.
Now to clarify some things with H1B. First and foremost only degree holders and above can apply for H1B, or sometimes exceptionally talented workers. I have to go through a series of interviews with both my present employer and the US consulate to get the visa. It's not just simply handing an H1B to anyone, I have to compete with other H1B applicants due to the quota set to my country. The next stage is for my employer to prove that my skill is exceptional and not available locally. It took 5 months, certification from a US university to validate my degree and experience, and a few thousands $ to finally get the approval.
Is it worth it? My employer seems to think so. I have met many H1B holders and we all have somewhat similar experience getting here. I guess what I'm trying to say is we are not just the average workers, we earned to be H1B holders because of our skill. This may not be all true, but I can guarantee you that most of us are.
For the record, my average working day is 12hrs.
(I'm sorry for any grammar/spelling mistakes.)
At my previous company the pay-rate was about 25% less, I was a develepor but classified as technician. Why? because classifying me as a developer/programmer would mean that the company I was working for (a major multinational company) would have to admit that anyone who is dedicated can program even without a college degree.
Look, I am a successful programmer, without a college degree.
Admitting that (a person without a degree can program) would mean that my company which was hiring H1-b's (as anything techs, programmers, you name it) at 30% less than what I started making at my new job, would have to open up the job search to everyone.
And also, before my first permanent job, 10 years ago, I applied to Microsoft with no response. At the same time another temp I was working with landed a job at Microsoft, and came back to the office about a month later. Everyone asked him, how did you land a job at Microsoft? His first words were, "You see I have a friend at Microsoft who..."
Note: When I was looking to switch jobs I applied twice to Microsoft, again no response. That make 3 times.
Look Bill, friends hire friends. Your not able to find programmers because people who apply are being rejected until someone's friend needs a job.
For Microsoft this all makes sense because, the major benefit of having friends in the office is that you can sand-bag. Microsoft is a company of sand-baggers, and tsunami of open-source is coming (sorry for the tangential comment).
What Microsoft needs is to really open up the hiring process and stop this cronyism.
What Bill is saying is totally at odds with the facts of the "new" outsourced-economy and the realities of how people get hired at Microsoft.
Half the developers I know have been laid off in the last five years, most are still unemployed.
- Open Source development companies aren't looking for visa benefits
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by
April 28, 2005 1:49 PM PDT
- I wonder why Bill needs to visa privileges when his most feared competition doesn't. Perhaps his model isn't working anymore.
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